Assaault Team

[Condition1Kimber]

I had what I considered a perfect team a year ago, before I PCS'd from my last duty station.  There were 4 of us, all NCOs with service ranging from 6 to 14 years.  We were all trained in SABC, and 2 had CLS training.  We all had ARs, 3 carbines and one rifle with a 4.5-14x scope.  We all carried 45 ACP pistols as our primary concealed weapons (almost daily), 3 being 1911s.  We shot a few times a month and reloaded 223 and 45 together.  We had plenty of options for bug out locations too.  There was complete interoperability.  We all had the same gear, so we could use each others weapons just as well as our own.  All ammo and mags were interchangeable, except the oddball 24/07 OSS the 1 guy carried.  Of course we all had other firearms available too.  2 of us also rocked AKs, and 2 of us had tactical style shotguns.  That was probably the most prepared for a SHTF scenario I've ever been.  Although due to our OPSTEMPO, 1 or 2 of us would usually be gone at any given time. 

[OVERKILL]

 Hate to be an idiot again, but the only set of initials I understood were ACP, could you explain the rest for people like myself.

[Condition1Kimber]

Sorry for the jargon.  Here you go.

PCS- permanent change of station

NCO- Non Commissioned Officer

SABC- self aid buddy care

CLS- combat life saver

OPSTEMPO- How much we are deployed vs how much we're home.

[OVERKILL]

 Now that you mention it, I think I'd heard NCO before too, but it's hard to remember if I'd heard it from friends in the military, what little I can remember from JROTC or a movie- which you can't ever believe at all.
 Thanks again for explaining those terms, I know it helped me a lot.

 I noticed you said 2 guys had tactical shotguns as well, thinking strictly in terms of a zombie infested post apocalyptic word, how important do you think they would be? What would the advantages and disadvantages be?

[Condition1Kimber]

Sorry I've been gone awhile.  I think the shot guns would see limited use compared to the rifles.  Mine is a double pistol grip, 18" barrel 870 with a mag extension.  Shotgun shells are too much of a PITA to carry many of.  They are bulky, and have to be loaded 1 at a time.  As you know, it's way quicker and easier to stuff a 30 round mag into an empty weapon and be good to go, especially in the heat of battle.  7 or 9 rounds is about the max most shotguns can hold, even with a mag extension.  Effective range is also a downfall.  I'd prefer not to let a zombie get into shotgun range if at all possible. 

The upside is that people who aren't familiar with guns have a slightly higher chance of making an incapacitating hit with the scattergun.  They could be employed by inexperienced people to guard a stronghold.  They could also be used for breaching/ forced entry.  That could come in handy later on when food and supplies run low and it's time to go out scavenging.  I don't think I'd bring mine out, unless I needed the "master key".

[OVERKILL]

 Thanks for the reply. Based upon your answer I think a chopped down pump with a 4 round capacity (low capacity and cut down to save on weight) might be good to carry in addition to a carbine and pistol for emergency door breaching but nothing else. Then again maybe a few frangible rifle rounds would be better and MUCH less weight, any comments on those.

 Also speaking strictly of zombies, does anybody think the low capacity and slow reload time would make that big a difference? How would that answer differ depending on population density (assuming more former living equals more zombies), and whether they were traditional undead shamblers that had to be shot in the head, or living rage infected zombies where a heart/lung shot would bring them down?

 Lastly, I'd like to offer a little bit of opinion. Reading back through Condition1Kimber's posts and how all his buddies made me think. If you only have one gun in the zombie apocalypse, make it a good, reliable, accurate 45 ACP. I know this goes against what I myself have said before. A pistol can be with you all the time, at your side - not propped up against the side of a tree while you're relieving yourself. I chose 45 ACP because:

A) It's a low recoil round and anybody without arthritis or some other medical condition can shoot this round accurately. My little sister is 10 years old, she's been handling the 45 ACP in a single action revolver since she was 7. By the time she was 9 I trusted her enough to let her use the autoloaders, the worst recoiling of which a Hi Point, but 1911, Hi Point or SAA, she handles the round fine. The only time I run into a problem is when I run out of ammo, she almost cries when we have to go back to shooting the 22 Long Rifle.

B) It's a big bore, but not a magnum. The fact that it's .45 means that even if all you can scrounge is full metal jacket, it will still be very effective. The 9mm Parabellum is extremely effective with hollow points, but not near as good with FMJ. The fact that the 45 ACP is not a magnum will allow you to shoot enough to become proficient with your particular sidearm.
 
C)You should also get a carbine ASAP. The pistol can always be with you, but a carbine will always be better. It will be more accurate (most times) and you have more options for sights. What kind and what caliber is more your preference, but I would recommend no smaller than 223 Remington. This or 7.62x39 are good choices since ammo is cheap and plentiful, and recoil is near zero with either. Keep price and availability in mind when make you decision.

 When finances allow, you should also get a 22 long rifle in both a pistol and carbine as closely replicating your main arms as possible. I reload, but it's hard to even buy primers as cheap as I can buy bulk 22 LR, but still practice with the big bores to stay used to their recoil and, more importantly, muzzle blast.

 Sorry for the long boring, rambling post. I don't blame anyone who doesn't want to read all of it, and I'll probably change my mind tommorrow and say a shotgun is the only thing you'll need. Feel free to disagree as long as you post about it.

[Wraith]

3 ‘Man’ Team set up Dream Team.
1.)    Alice from Resident Evil(Mila Jovovich) armed with 2 knives, and 2 .45’s.
2.)   Chuck Norris carries an M60 only because he wants to, but doesn’t need anything else.
3.)   Me built like Awwwnold and armed a 7.62 minigun.

On a more serious note something a bit different.   I am going to make an assumption that ammo would not really be an issue, but something to be considered.   I am also going to assume that everyone is average weight for the height.  Living on a limited diet will keep individuals weight down a bit.  Height would be less important.  I am also going to assume that everyone is reasonably competent in the use of the weapons.

All would carry the following sidearm .22 LR silenced semi-auto pistol.  This would work well for taking out Zombies (individual or small groups) without making so much noise as to attract the attention of lots of other Zombies.  The disadvantage would be range, but the light weight and plentiful ammo availability would out weigh the disadvantages.  This would also be the primary weapon in most stealth Zombie assassinations.  It would also allow everyone to have 1 weapon with common ammo to be shared if things get desperate.

3 Person Squad (hunter/killer) –This team would focus on killing zombies and the best way to do that is at range. Why risk losing a team member up close when you can ‘plink’ from far away.
1.)    Long Range – Here I would probably use something a bit different combination.  I do not plan on having this person get close to the Zombies.  His job is kill Zombies at range and everyone else cover him.
a)    M-14 (Match grade silenced with a Leupold Mark 4 scope).  The .308 ammo is going to be fairly common to find.  The 20 round box magazines and semi-auto fire would be another advantage.  Yes it would be heavy and in close range he would probably carry the sidearm as a primary weapon.
b)   Hand to hand weapon would be something light.  I was thinking an ASP (collapsing baton).  Yes it is hard enough to crack skulls.  It would be easy to carry and not get in the way of the pistol holster or the rifle.

   
2.)   Close Range– Is just that, someone who is deadly with a up close and mean weapon would be the primary.  You would need to keep this person light and agile.  Cluttering them up with extra gear would only lose the effectiveness.
a.   Katana. Sharp as hell and in the hands of a skilled user deadly.    
b.   Pry bar (crow bar) for the obvious reasons more of a tool than a weapon.


3.)    Medium Range- Having given this a lot of thought (this is probably where I’d come in). In this case the primary job would be to keep the Long Range guy safe up close.
a.   M4 Carbine (.223) with a simple red dot sight.  Under slung on the barrel would be a 12 gauge shotgun.  This would offer the a bit longer range with the .223, and much closer in punch with the 12 gauge.  The shotgun would also have breaching loads available but mostly with 00 buck.  Sorry OVERLORD, I like the breaching rounds, and so I am stealing a bit from you here, but it’s good to overlook (and I forgot about them).   
b.   Multi-use Axe/Hatchet.  This would serve as not only a close in weapon, but also a tool.  Should be easy and light to carry without getting in the way too much.



I'll be posting more of a reacon/search team later on.

Thanks guys!

[OVERKILL]

 Thanks for the well thought out reply. I'm looking forward to read about your recon/search team.